If you haven’t heard, Rob Thomas, the creator of the Veronica Mars television series, launched a “Make The Movie of VM” Kickstarter campaign recently, in an effort to make the $2mm necessary to fund the film.
Yep, that’s right, I said Veronica Mars . . . the popular three-season TV series produced by those two little known siblings they call Warner Bros.
Rob called the Kickstarter “our one shot to see a Veronica Mars movie happen.”
He raised the $2mm in 11 hours. The current total raised is $3.7mm.
And according to this article published today, Rob wants even more.
Now look, people have the right to give where and when they want to give, right? So why am I so geared up?
Kickstarter and its compatriots weren’t designed for big box studio originated projects . . . where $2mm is petty cash. Nor was it designed for folks like Mr. Thomas, who has been a successful tv/writer/producer for the last decade and then some. One shot? Really? You couldn’t have invested some cash yourself? Or asked Broadway vet and VM star, Ms. Bell, who’s got a lot of residuals coming to her according to her IMDB page (who I’m a big fan of, by the way, ever since I saw her in a student production of Hair at NYU in the nineties). Or what about your friends? You couldn’t have done what Broadway and Off Broadway producers do every single day when they want to fund a commercial passion project and, oh, I don’t know, raised the money under a standard investment structure?
This was your “one shot?”
Now look . . . the kickstarters who put up that $3.7mm are happy. They’re getting their movie, and some are even getting a t-shirt . . . or for $50, a DVD (which is about the 1989 cost of a VHS tape). So if everyone’s happy, what’s my deal-i-o? Why do I think those backers got the back door?
Simple.
If the JOBS act rules and regulations were in place by now . . . this project may have been a for-profit-enterprise. And those backers might actually own a piece of the movie . . . which they should.
Obviously, I have no problem with crowdfunded projects, since that’s how I funded Godspell.
But when producers are raising for the big stages or the big screens, in the hopes of making big bucks for everyone involved, they should allow their investors to earn the same.
The SEC is worried about the potential fraud associated with JOBS and Crowdfunding in general, which is why the rules and regs have been delayed. Ironically, in my opinion, the real fraud occurs when companies with deep pockets and big brands start using Kickstarter and the like to fund their dreams so they don’t have to, while at the same time shirking the responsibility of paying out any profits.
There’s no way to regulate what gets on Kickstarter or not. Certainly Kickstarter isn’t going to stop folks with the potential to raise millions from joining up, since they earn a percentage of what’s raised. So the only way to control it is in our hands, or, well, our feet. We just shouldn’t kick ‘em.
I can tell you right now . . . if I ever crowdfund another Broadway or Off Broadway show and I don’t promise you a piece of the profits in exchange for your money . . . do not . . . I repeat . . . do not give me any money.
Because it’s just not what the spirit of crowdfunding is all about.
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20 Responses to Why the Veronica Mars movie backers got screwed.
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I don’t disagree with the main thrust of this article, but in answer to why Rob Thomas isn’t putting up his own money, he responded to that in an interview, saying the years he has been devoting to this project, writing it, trying to work to get it greenlit, etc., are years he could’ve spent working on paying jobs, and he has a mortgage and a family. Which makes sense to me.
I absolutely see your point, but I don’t think Veronica Mars Kickstarters are the poor, misguided piggy banks you’re making them out to be. Sure, they won’t be making back any part of the profit from the movie, but they will be getting a movie. Fandom isn’t about money, it’s about love and enthusiasm and I think the Veronica Mars Kickstarter campaign is a great way to look at a group of people coming together because of something they love and making something exciting happen because of that.
I agree that this Kickstarter is setting a dangerous precedence for big business abusing crowdfunding. Truth is too many Hollywood names have come out of the woodwork, saying they would consider this route as well. This approach probably wouldn’t work most of the time, but that won’t stop them from trying.
I don’t doubt Thomas & Co.’s intentions though. My understanding of this particular situation is that Warner Bros. wouldn’t sign off without proof of fan support. Anyone can pay for a movie but that doesn’t mean that the fans want it. The fans shelling out the bucks is hard proof they want it.
I completely disagree. When I decided to give money to the Veronica Mars movie, I wasn’t looking for anything on the back end. The only reward I was really looking for was the film itself. The digital files and T-shirt and DVD? That’s all bonus stuff. Unexpected rewards. I’m sure if you asked the majority of people who participated in the People of Godspell, they’d say the same thing.
And hell – at least the Veronica Mars people got some rewards. That’s more than the People of Godspell can probably say.
to Chris – if and when the movies lets say makes 20 mill at the box office. non of those people get any. The producers/dir/cast will but not the people who put 50 bucks in 1000 or more.
that makes me mad – at this level it should have separate rules…
I have no dog in this fight. But I do doubt that this movie would have been green-lighted without the big show of fan support. And really, what kind of profit share would a person who gives $50 be likely to get? A few cents? Especially given the creative accounting that goes on in the movie industry. Still, I do see that the whole spirit of crowd-funding is being violated. It was supposed to be a way for small-timers to raise money for their projects, and for the less-than-wealthy to come together to support things that the major players never would. When the mainstream movie industry gets involved, it smells pretty fishy.
Couldn’t agree more!
Damn securities laws.
This campaign is generating a ton of excited discussion; maybe it’ll catalyze action on the JOBS act, because that’s the more significant issue to me. From the comments above and elsewhere, it seems to me that most participants think of signing up as the equivalent of buying a jersey for a favorite sports team, and don’t associate that act with team ownership. Even at the VM scale, it’s far more symbolic than workable numbers. Push that JOBS plan, Ken. If you offer me a share of a show at a reachable cost, I WILL kick in.
It is truly disappointing how little you know about this situation, and how incredibly misinformed your readers are going to be.
First off, this movie is not going to be a blockbuster hit where Warner Brothers will be rolling in cash; despite what we fans would love, this movie will earn a little bit of cash back for the advertisement Warner Brothers puts out, and for the few theaters it will be going in (because it’s mostly going to be straight to DVD).
As for Rob not putting in his own money, you should probably know that Rob has put projects on the backburner – real, paying projects – for YEARS because he has been working on getting this movie greenlighted. He has reworked and reworked the script countless times and yes, he will be earning a little cash on this movie, but it is well deserved cash. As for the cast members, most are working for very little pay. Max Greenfield already stated that he will fly in on his own dime and work for free, just to be on this movie. The entire cast is immensely dedicated. This isn’t something that sprung up over night. Again, people have been striving towards this movie since the cancellation of the show in 2007.
For the perks: I am essentially earning my cash back. From the way you put it in the article, you make it sound as though for fifty dollars, ALL I’m getting is the DVD. That’s not true. I’m getting a t-shirt, physical and digital copy of the film, frequent newsletters and a PDF of the script (which for any serious fan like me is a huge deal). If you consider it’s about 20 dollars for a DVD, 13-15 for a digital copy of anything, and 15-20 for a t-shirt, I am just prepaying for what I would already buy. Should a fan of something that is purchasing merchandise or DVDs own a stake in the product? Of course not.
I don’t mean to come off as rude, but this is something I feel very strongly about. This movie and project is the result of the dedication of fans and cast alike. We have been fighting Warner Brothers on this for years. There have been projects such as sending thousands of Mars Bars to the studios and flying a plane over Warner Brothers. People want this. We deserve this, and nobody should shame us or Rob for doing what we can. This WAS the last chance. This was our only chance.
I haven’t donated to the VMars movie despite being a fan, partially because I do agree that Kickstarter is being used to support what ought to be considered commercial ventures, and I think that deviates from the intent of the platform. Yes, it would be preferable to have for-profit projects set up to be actual micro investments rather than rewards-backed donations. Rob and Kristen have stated that they’re working for union minimum with gross points; the fans would be ecstatic to have a credit or check for $0.03 of any profit.
That being said, I think the rewards structure Rob has set up is pretty fair value, which is commensurate with their claim that fans are pre-buying the movie and merchandise and demonstrating the level of interest and excitement for the movie. VMars accumulated cult and critical acclaim but it wasn’t a big performer, which is why it was on the bubble at the end of every one of its three seasons. Kristen Bell has great visibility but almost no box office power, and she’s basically the only mainstream name in the cast and creatives. There will be no zombies, Bay-style explosions, excessive nudity, gratuitous bodily fluids, or CGI. Warner Brothers think they’re still taking a risk with outlay of distribution and marketing costs and no one expects the movie to be a cash cow. So there are worse things than fans taking it upon themselves to fund smart, niche material that otherwise would never get produced. The emotional closure may be enough of a ROI.
While I do agree that this is an important discussion to have, I have to admit that I, like Elise, respectfully disagree with the black-and-white presentation here. No, big studios should not be piggybacking on crowdfunding sites as a means of passing off the monetary risk to supporters. But I think the situation is a lot more complicated than just a matter of a studio and a group of celebrities sitting back while fans do all the legwork.
First of all, I hardly think the project is going to be able to be entirely funded by the Kickstarter campaign, not matter how much money they raise (and even less so when the goal was only 2 million dollars). Especially with the increasing costs and manpower to even distribute all the prizes, the money that is ultimately made from this campaign will be pennies, and I’m sure Rob Thomas and crew will have to find other ways of pitching in, even if it just means forgoing salaries or cutting other corners. Warner Brothers also said it would aid in the marketing and distribution of the film, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they were kicking in some money of their own and were more relying on this Kickstarter campaign to a) prove the fan base, and b) generate some buzz.
I think that whether or not crowdfunding is allowing companies to exploit fans is an important discussion to keep having, but as it stand with Veronica Mars being the test subject, I don’t really see how this could be a viable business model for studios. Because a perk at one of the lower donation levels is a digital download of the movie shortly after it’s released in theaters, ticket sales and DVD sales are probably going to be pretty minor. With all the swag people are getting as a part of their donations, it really is like they’re mostly just prepaying for the merchandise.
What I most disagree with in this blog post, however, is what the “spirit of crowdfunding” is all about. Yes, I do think it’s fair that large investors get to be a part of the business development and profit off the success of a project– but that’s a traditional model of investment, not what crowdfunding is. Crowdfunding gives everyone a chance to show support to projects they love, and it allows it at every level with recognition to everyone in the community in some form or another. While it’s true that you would never want to not give an investor a share of your profits, you’re never going to be parsing pennies for a person with $5 who just wants to be a part of what you do, either.
I think crowdfunding works best when it’s looked at as a means of taking pre-orders for a project. It’s a “lean startup” way of gauging audience interest before investing the resources into actually creating the final product. It allows an audience to form before the project is completed and feel engaged in the process– and when all is said and done, that audience also gets the product in the flesh. Whatever people decide to contribute above or below is their prerogative.
Thanks to Elise, hard core fan of VM, with strong and important views, elaborating on the background of the whole thing – which perhaps was lacking in your own post, Ted. Also Jules and Kim point out valuable aspects of the matter widening the perspective of crowdfunding as such – as well as of crowdequity, I guess – and thats important since traditional funding so often is not enough and needs to be challenged. Interesting !
I agree with you 100%. And I’m a Veronica Mars fan!
I’m a little disconcerted at the proposal for major companies using this platform just due to the spirit that this site was created in and the model which saw it created. I’ve seen a quite in-depth interview with the founder and CEO of Kickstarter and the whole ethos was a Funding Platform devoid of ‘equity’ for those who have trouble funding the project. Like, it doesn’t matter if you license your content to Warner or something, but for Warner to own the content from the start seems somewhat an abuse of the spirit in which it was created. People were never really intended primarily to be ‘profit-oriented’ it was for art projects and out-there tech ideas which people believed in, this seems quite cynical.
I want to start my own Kickstarter project, I’m not quite finalised on what to ask for yet, whether to ask for a small amount while I take a year out to finish my Rock-Opera, or to fund a small indie recording company, and write my Opera whilst recording and promoting other acts. I just feel like I don’t want to be lost suddenly in a corporate swamp when they have perfectly disposable cap.ex. budgets for content development.
I totally agree, Ken. People investing in a for-profit huge gig should be considered backers but it’s their choice to back such a venture – sobeit – just as long as no fraud or misrepresentation is involved.
I am so happy that you addressed this topic because I have been eagerly awaiting to put my 2 cents in on this very topic. I think that there is a fine line with regulation when it comes to the kick starter campaigns. As a person who have been deeply watching the saga between Warner, Rob Thomas and the Veronica Mars fans I think that as a writer/creator he founds himself between a rock and hard place. I’m sure when it really boils down to it if he didn’t have to ask for the money then he wouldn’t have. I mean the fans really wanted to have the film made for a long time; along with the cast and creator. However, if you consistently have a big budget monarch such as Warner that continuously puts the project on the backburner it really leaves the fans wondering if it will ever be made. I feel in this instance because all parties involved wanted the film to be made and other people didn’t want to cough up the money to get it made it was ok. However, I do feel when Ken is coming from. Especially if you have several actors that are making well over 3 million a year that want to see this project being made. Why don’t they put up the money to fund the project? I know as a artist I feel like if I want to make certain art I have to do it myself. Regardless of what it takes.
Wow! Can’t believe what I just read!!! First of all, I thought the cap on the Jobs Act was UNDER $1 million, not $2 Million and beyond. I also thought it was to help folks get a business off the ground, i.e., starter funds. I have been trying to raise money for my low budget thriller indie movie project for over a couple of years now and the budget is definitely under $1 million. I feel this is a misuse of what the JOBS Act was intended for in the first place, not to mention that it will certainly catch the eye of the SEC and the IRS, and could spoil the original intention for those who truly need the opportunity.
Well, first of all, as a Person of GODSPELL, I do want to make it known that it was a great experience. Ken promised us exactly what we got, and when expectations are clear, no one walks away disappointed.
I would also like to point out that GODSPELL star Hunter Parrish was also an investor, so Ken’s suggestion that Kristen Bell should be investing isn’t entirely an unprecedented idea.
As long as the VERONICA MARS people are happy, then that’s what matters most. That said, someone will make a tidy profit off this movie. Even if it goes Straight-to-DVD, there will be millions made. It would be nice if some of that got returned to the original investors, but as long as they are happy and the expectations were clear, that’s what matters most.
My name is Ray and I kicked in fifty… I am an old cat and I don’t know from Mars-es (Veronca, Laura or otherwise)but the morning after the first day of the campaign, I clicked-on HR and read the story and I wanted in…
Now maybe it was because I didn’t understand the crowdfunding thing early on (and missed out on Ken’s GODSPELL).Since then my kids explained it to me and I’ve been studying it a bit.
Maybe it was us, the ‘great unwashed’ telling LA-LA make this flick! I mean isn’t there that one movie you really want to see that never seems to get the green? I know for me it’s two actually, the third shoe of the Shaara/Maxwell Civi War trilogy, THE LAST FULL MEASURE and that pre-prequel to TWIN PEAKS.
Maybe it’s because, one of my kids is shopping his screenplays and the other is about to move one of his shows from Brooklyn to off-off.
But I think that morning it was because I felt the passion and I bandwagon’d. It was a different kind of investment decision. Am I gonna watch the DVD, maybe not but ya know I just might put that sticker in a prominent place…
(still not all that OK with the whole marshmallow thing…)
I could not agree more. I find this sort of public begging by those who are not needy in the least to be repugnant and exploitative to the extreme.